What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

topic posted Fri, December 2, 2005 - 11:06 AM by  Camila
Im a little bit curious about what other kind of yoga think of bikram.
posted by:
Camila
Chile
  • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

    Fri, December 2, 2005 - 1:46 PM
    What do you think of Bikram? & what do you think of other schools of yoga?
    • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

      Mon, December 5, 2005 - 6:56 PM
      Everyone has their own opinion, and what works for some doesn't work for others. For example, I've tried it and Kundalini just isn't my cup of tea at all...meanwhile it's my friend's favorite and she doesn't find Iyengar Yoga compelling. It's all a matter of personal preference.
      • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

        Wed, December 7, 2005 - 11:34 AM
        Well, i think it is a good way for people whom have never done asana to discover thier bodies for the first time. The sequence is cookie-cutter, and not applicable for all body types. No one sequence is. Once one has had enough of it, i would hope that they may move in the direction of individualized practice which is correct for thier body, and learning from Iyengar, Viniyasa, or even Anusara skilled teacher will help them deepen this.
        By the way, copywriting an asana series is a big 'sin', meaning 'without', (humility, grace, dignity, and with greed in mind). So i take issues with that aspect of Mr. Bikram's agenda.

        Namaste
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

    Wed, December 7, 2005 - 9:29 PM
    I started with Bikram and migrated to Iyengar. My primary practice
    is still Bikram because it is close to work and I continue to use it as
    a foundation building series. I love Iyengar because it was/is more
    spiritual for me but it also lites fires Bikram does not.....but.....the Bikram
    heat allows me to go into another type of depth of meditation.

    Note: Because I started to see that a number of yogi's from different
    styles had opinion with ...other styles than their own and there is some
    serious judgment of Bikram....I'm hoping to spend the next few years
    (most likely the rest of my life) checking other yoga's out and am
    just toally excited about this road I hope to walk.

    So I find and like what I have in Bikram but.....one thing I find strange
    and somewhat limited is that a number of Bikram instructors I have
    talked too have only done Bikram......

    When I started yoga I thought it was just the physical...asana....
    It wasn't to long before I was shown that yoga is much more than asana
    and just taking the first step whether it's Bikram or Iyengar or meditation
    or???? is ....WOW...heart chakra just completely opened.

    Yoga, rocks! :) and I Love yoga people

    family
    • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

      Sat, December 10, 2005 - 2:00 PM
      My practice alternates between Jois' Ashtanga and Iyengar. These are more related than many people realize (in terms of heritage, if not style). I like the flow and breathing aspects of Ashtanga and the mindful attention to detail that Iyengar brings. Some folks mock this as "Ashtangar," but it works well for me - I don't practice to make the purists happy.

      I also spend a lot of time studying the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali and meditating - this is the real heart of yoga to me. All the hatha stuff is just prep work for deeper spiritual exploration.
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    Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

    Wed, December 14, 2005 - 4:29 PM
    I personally *can't* do Bikram. I have almost passed out from the heat the only two times I tried it. For my body, I can't put my all into my practice in that kind of heat... and if I'm not putting my all into it I'm not paying for a class.
    Besides the fact that I have the same issues with it that are stated above.
    • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

      Wed, December 14, 2005 - 8:29 PM
      I actually like practicing outdoors on a cool brisk morning - I like the way waves of steam rise off my body as I build up more heat over the course of my practice. A good Ashtanga practice creates heat naturally...
      • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

        Wed, December 21, 2005 - 11:59 AM
        I have thise question because I practise ashtanga for almost 3 years.. when I started Bikram yoga I thougt it was a ashtanga class but with Indian temperature 42ºc.
        Then I realise that is the same class every day and you can only continue to the next asana if you are a teacher ( in my case I will have to travell to L.A) ..maybe is a begeener class for people that dont have exppirience in yoga .. but olso im impress how thise kind of yoga atract peolple of all ages and they of course feel better and improve there lifestyle.
        Other important point to discuss is how expensive thise classes are.. For a student is a very high value.
        There are no meditacion, but you still have to meditate to do a perfect posture and forget the heatI dont think that Bikram is the best yoga but thats the way they show it to you .. I think ashtanga is morte complete, and yes it creates a lot of natural heat.
        Its an open discussion..I need more opinions..thanks a lot.
        camila.
        chile.
    • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

      Wed, January 11, 2006 - 4:28 PM
      I must inject, also, that I have been told quite
      bluntly that Bikram or any 'heated' yoga is
      actually very bad for the body, as the heat
      helps to fake your body into poses it may not be
      ready for, causing you to overdue and possibly
      injure yourself in a number of ways. You should
      try to stick to simply learning through the pain.
      I will never do heated yoga.
      • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

        Wed, January 11, 2006 - 5:58 PM
        I have never done Bikram but I have been practicing since 1971. I am of the Iyengar school and the belief that a broad tolerance of other branches of yoga is wise, but I draw the line at things not yoga calling themselves yoga. YogaFit, for example. Well, intended, but not, in my view, yoga.

        With respect to Bikram, I have no specifc reason to speak against his style, but the strongly commercial approach including franchising and threats of litigation offend me deeply.

        I have always said that asana, though glorious, is the least important part of yoga, and since asana seems to be the most important part to Bikram, even to the extent of claiming it as a personal creation, I question the depth of his practice.

        I do not say this to offend those who practice Bikram's style. Especially if they pursue the other limbs of yoga, I suspect they will do well. My question is more this:

        Where is Bikram's heart in all this?
      • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

        Wed, January 11, 2006 - 6:04 PM
        LaDonna wrote:

        "You should
        try to stick to simply learning through the pain."

        Perhaps other's would like to weigh in on this but I have always taught that if you are having pain with your yoga, you or your teacher are/is doing something wrong.

        I would acknowledge that after a great deal of practice and subtle understanding of one's body, there are some kinds of "pain" that are good and even uplifitng, but for the most part, I see no role for pain in the practice of Iyengar yoga.
        • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

          Thu, January 12, 2006 - 7:57 AM
          Well that is what I was talking about; the growing
          pains and subtle pains of taking the time to learn
          yoga and put oneself into poses. Of course people
          are going to experience soreness and whatnot when
          they start out; I did. In my opinion, people simply
          should not do heated or overheated yoga, if it will
          cause them to think they are more limber than they
          are and go too far, thus hurting themselves.
          • Well then, how is that different from people who practice Iyengar, astanga or Hatha in different geographical climates...
            and there fore different temperatures???

            Having a lower back and hip injury...My body is my best teacher... I've worked in physical jobs all round the world in varying climates doing martial arts and yoga in my spare time....

            There is no doubt in my BODY as to the benefits of heat. The distinction between room heat and actually warming your blood and muscles by circulation and oxygen must be made..

            Even in warm rooms a proper warm up is advised.....It's just quicker to attain when the room's heated.
            How ever I have not yet tried bikram. It does appeal.
            Interestingly, for political reasons, there have been some break away teachers from Bikram who created Moksha yoga.

            Has anyone else heard of this?
            • I don't dissagree that heat can be good for the body, especially when you're dealing with certain types of stress of stiffness from an injury. However, that doesn't mean that heat (& here, I'm not talking about the internal heat created by good breathing & circulation) should be confused as a requirement or something that will improve one's yoga.

              I'm not saying this is you, Gerard, but I think some people may get trapped by the mistaken notion that they're doing better yoga if they're more flexible. So, if a heated room helps them cross their ankles behind their head (or whatever), then they crank up the heat because it's really all about becoming more flexible. I think this is the root problem with Bikram & other forms of hot yoga.

              I may have shared these elsewhere, but here are two quotes from my teachers (may or may not have been origianlly attributed to Mr. Iyengar):

              "Heat is a very blunt instrument"

              "The best warm up for yoga is yoga"
      • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

        Mon, October 9, 2006 - 10:17 AM
        Yes, it is true that you can be hot, and open and therefore over stretch joints and be injured later. However, the other side of the heat is that it if very detoxing and if you do a hot yoga practice 3-4 times a week you will probably not get sick,and your enduance will strengthen for other activities, such as running, biking, working long hours, and focusing. I myself am a dedicated Iyengar student and practicing, however I admit that it was Bikram that gave started my yoga path. I stayed with it for a year, and learned what I needed, then moved onto other teachings, finally landing in Iyengar that seems to be right for me. I agree that Bikram is a great form for introducing Western culture to yoga, but comes with consequences...such as people over doing it in the heat becasue the teachers are not taught to take care of the their student's injuries. The comment above someone made that most Bikram teachers have only done Bikram yoga speaks to the inexperience of the teachers, and to their dependence on his teachings to give them what they need to be mindful teachers. In my expereince of doing Bikram, the only good teacher I had was a woman who had studied other schools of yoga as well. Bikram teachers tend to be failry narrow and somewhat militant. So take caution when studying to be a bikram teacher or student!

        But, on a final note I am always pleased to hear that yoga is helping someone's quality of life and self-awarrness, and if Bikram is that form of yoga that can do it for them, I support it. My only words of caution are to seek out experienced teachers and know that only you can care for your body and tune into to how far you can go in a pose, and when an injury may be coming on.

        I see yoga as a path to inner awareness, happiness, wholeness, and health. It is mine to define it and use it as I will, so blessings to all who choose to go there at all find their own meanings.
        • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

          Mon, October 9, 2006 - 11:05 AM
          Nice way of summing it up Phoebe. This is a really old thread & I commented on it once before when it first popped up. I too played around with the Bikram style & found it to a be a good way to boost up some strength & endurance in my regular yoga practice (already had studied Iyengar & some Ashtanga for years before).

          But I noticed the same downside that you mention and I wanted to add a line that I think I heard from one of my Iyengar teachers in response to the argument about the "benefits" of hot yoga: "Heat is a very blunt instrument".

          Which to me means, it can work but like a fad diet: (a) there are often great results for some people, but it may or may not be the best way of accomplishing what you want to accomplish; (b) there are some health risks that can be minor or major depending on how healthy you are already; (c) it's probably not sustainable over a long period of time for most people.
          • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

            Wed, October 11, 2006 - 7:12 AM
            I've been going through all the posts on this one & I'm sort of surprised. It looks like people seem to have forgotten that yoga is "chitta-vritti nirodha" or removing the mind-fluctuation. As the Bible, I think, says "Be still and know I am God." That is yoga.
            It's not just excersises. We need to ponder over this I feel.
  • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

    Wed, January 11, 2006 - 3:29 PM
    "Yoga is the whole, of which Kundalini is a part.

    Yoga is the whole, of which Laya is a part.

    Yoga is the whole, of which Mantra is a part.

    Yoga is the whole, of which Nada is a part.

    Yoga is the whole, of which Raja is a part.

    Yoga is the whole, of which Tantra is a part.

    Yoga is the whole, of which Bhakti is a part.

    Yoga is the whole, of which Hatha is a part.

    Yoga is the whole, of which Jnana is a part.

    Yoga is the whole, of which Karma is a part.

    Yoga is the whole, of which ____?___ is a part."

    All Yoga leads to the same end. Some take the bus while others like to walk.

    Wishing the best of all possible worlds,
    Iyengar Yoga teacher, tony eason


    • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

      Sat, January 14, 2006 - 8:49 PM
      thanks LaDonna. tony and MrM for your reply to my question ..I have never doude any kind of Yoga .. Luna yoga , Ashtanga ..but when I start my practice at Bikram?s studio there where many questions in my head that confuse me a lot because some things dindt match ..your answers make me understand.. yoga have an unswer by her self .
      beautifull words.
      camila.
      • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

        Sun, January 15, 2006 - 10:40 AM
        Camila writes:
        "when I start my practice at Bikram?s studio there where many questions in my head that confuse me a lot because some things dindt match"

        Camila,

        I will stick to my principle of not judging other styles, only expressing concern where I am concerned. HOWEVER........! I am a yoga teacher and have some obligations to beginners who entrust their learning to teachers. If one's first few encounters with a teacher raise troubling questions that confuse and don't match with the path of yoga, then something is wrong.

        I suspect that Mr. Iyengar would not be nearly so reluctant as I to critically evaluate, but I am not he and cannot claim to speak for him personally. You asked what Iyengars think of Bikram. Well, there are people who are much closer to Mr. Iyenagar in SF and the Bay area than I; people who have met him and even been instructed by him personally.

        What do they think of Bikram--the style and the teaching; not the man. I'd like to hear.

        And in fairness, I'd like to hear from some advocates of Bikram. What's their read on the style and the franchising--and how it apparently left Camila?
        • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

          Mon, January 23, 2006 - 7:31 AM
          Yes my question is not to the men Iyengar is to all people who practise this style or other style too.. mostly instructors or persons who have more expirience that can help with a mature perspective..
          thise is an open question to anyone who has an opinion ...
          I will like to hear them all... of course I will like to hear an opinion of a bikram instructor too ..
          I dont want to judg ..
          thanks a lot DRM for your answers ..
          camila.
  • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

    Wed, September 27, 2006 - 2:39 PM
    I truly appreciate all the thoughtful responses I have read to this post. I have practised many styles, including both Iyengar and Bikram and I share my impressions and experiences only. I too agree that we must each find our own path, and our own teachers, and find the experiences that suit us individually and will help our souls to grow.

    I took my first Bikram class six or seven years ago, and having a young and very able body, I was pushed hard to achieve poses and "stand in the front of the room" I quote from my teacher at that time. I found this to be somewhat uncomfortable, but wasn't able to identify why until later, after studying with some teachers who helped me to understand more deeply the eight limbs of yoga and the mental practice that is cultivated in tandem with asana. I feel that other styles may connect us more deeply to some of these mental practices and may help us to more easily strip away some of our ego and our clinginess to percieved beauty and what a pose is "supposed" to be.

    Another characteristic of Bikram classes that ultimately I found untenable was the use of a script for the teachers leading class. I did not know they did this until taking classes in many cities and studios and realizing my teachers were basically saying, word for word, the same thing to take us through class. Every time. My personal feeling is that having a script can prevent us from being in the moment, as a teacher, and as a student. Rather than being aware of the reality of the bodies and minds in the room in a particular class, a script assumes that everyone can access the teaching in the same way, through words alone, all the time. I appreciate other styles such as Iyengar where demonstration and physical adjustments are used, as I feel these methods can be just as useful in teaching bodies as words.

    Another issue I have with a scripted class is that I do not feel it creates a safe environment for students to ask questions, to deviate from the plan. If a teacher exists to serve the learning of the students, it seems to me that it should be comfortable and easy to ask questions. My own experience in Bikram classes has been if a question is asked, the answers are fast, general and fairly unspecific. And then we go back to our 26 poses timed with the stopwatch so we don't run over the alloted class time. There was a fairly hierarchical sense in the classes I took, where you do what the teacher says and you don't question it. If you have trust in your teacher, this isn't a problem. but I can't say that I always did trust the teacher, to know what was or wasn't safe for me, to know anatomically and energetically what was going on in my body. I have reservations about how these teachers are trained and how much training and apprenticeship they receive before they have a class of 40 students in front of them. But that is true of more yoga teachers than just those teaching in the Bikram Colleges!

    The heat is the heat. If you have ever practised in the tropics then you know that the heat can definitely be a part of yoga practise, naturally.

    My final feeling about Bikram yoga was that it was not the practice for me. Many of the teachers I encountered had a deep respect and humble gratitude towards Bikram for healing them, helping them to overcome huge pains and hurdles, so I know there are people out there who value this practise.
  • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

    Thu, September 28, 2006 - 10:13 AM
    I think Iyengar is very compling to technique junkies (like me). As a dancer, posture and technique were my priorities in finding a style. I find that when my body is properly lined up I can hold the poses longer and my mind can rest. I'm sure different styles appeal to different personalities.

    As for Bikram, I've never tried it and probably never will. I struggle hard with doing intense physical activitiy in temperatures over about 95. Maybe my body doesn't cool very efficiently, but I tend to get sick to my stomach and light headed when I exert myself at high temps. I think the discomfort of the heat and sweat would make it hard for me to focus on and relax my mind.

    I enjoy flow styles of yoga because they are dance like, but feel I personally get more out of focusing on the form and details of single poses in Iyengar.
    • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

      Fri, September 21, 2007 - 2:09 AM
      Yoga in a sauna doesn't appeal to me AT ALL, as doesn't having to push myself, having to do the same old rigid poses every day because someone made that up and a focus on only the physical aspect of yoga, or a focus mostly on singing or meditating.

      Bikram for me is out of the question. First I was really curious about it, because I heard it would give quick results and I was looking for a way to get in tremendous shape quickly for my dance practice, but after reading into it, I figured that thát was really not what I want at all. Ashtanga and poweryoga, from my own experience, have a competing feel to it. I'm not saying that they are competitive in nature, but that for me personally, it really triggers the competitive, pushy, overly ambitious business person in me, the part that wants to have results like yesterday. And I have had my share of that. Nowadays, all I want is rest, relaxation, concentration.
      So... Nowadays I'm more into some fluid series and for the most part of my practice I seem to have a tendency to Iyengar (although at first I didn't know that what I liked was called this way).
      I think it's all a journey and it's all really very personal. No one form is thé ultimate and only form. What works for one, does not work for another. It can also vary per period in your life. I used to tend to the quicker, überly acrobatic and athletic stuff in my early days, but now I've become much wiser :).
      • Re: What do Iyengar yoga think about Bikram yoga??

        Mon, September 24, 2007 - 12:04 PM
        So I have a related kind of question. Can anyone tell me what this "detoxifying" claim is in relation to heat/Bikram/Saunas/etc? What exactly is this process? What is detoxifying? What toxins are leaving? I'm looking for a good, solid answer, out of curiosity. I once heard Dr. A Weil ask this same question and ever since I have been curious as to the answer. It's a claim that's been around, regarding heat and steam, for a good long time, but I've been unable to get a scientific answer. The only answer I've come to so far, is that the steam makes you sweat, which will push out clogged pores, but not much else. Anyone know the answer to this one? I'd greatly appreciate it!

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